Governing Body Roast (Edited Livestream)

Governing Body Roast (Edited Livestream)



here we go is it Ariat everybody can you hear and see me Thank You Ethan for chiming in everybody else here and then seeing everything okay yay hopefully alright I just put the link to my Google Hangouts in the group chat that I have everybody else in so we should be together shortly y'all don't mind so how's everybody doing in the live chat what's going on how does everybody's a Friday or if you happen to be in Australia Saturday good stuff right how's it going about thank you am I being can you hear me is everything okay I can hear you live chat everybody can everybody hear Lloyd looks like it I think quiet another minute let's see what I can do yeah okay looks like everybody can hear it hear everything so that's good I can't hear I can hear you but I can't hear not Joe witness or just tracted oh yeah yeah all right let's see okay good oh this is gonna be so fun yay all right now we're just waiting for Owen so how's everybody think going so far know that I show literally just woke up so hey all right can everybody hear Owens okay I hear you guys all right everything is good to go excellent all right well and it's five o'clock so perfect timing yeah everybody's together all right so welcome one and all to the first ever maybe I don't know if somebody else could have done this but as far as I know it's the first ever governing body unofficial roast session a I sorry I thought it was gonna be an official roast I couldn't get anybody to officiate Oh nevermind well we'll do our best but no it's a pleasure to be here thank you for inviting me thank you for coming on I was so excited to have all of you guys cuz I think that not only obviously are you all knowledgeable about you know the crazy shenanigans of the governing body and all the stuff that they said and done and gotten up to but I feel like you guys can be funny when you put your minds to it we do what we do our best book allow me to just congratulate you on 500 subs I can remember very well how which time it took to get to that milestone and you've done it very quickly so fantastic growth wondrous expansion now taking place and all that so congrats prophetic growth I would say let's not go there but that's what this whole thing is about isn't it we can the window being triggered at some point yeah thanks for going the audience yeah but we all kind of came here I think that this will be very cathartic for all of us like we're gonna talk about all the horrible stuff and how much we hate it but at the same time we get to poke fun at them it'll be fun you know I know that at least I know that when we're trying to talk about you know very seriously about the problems with extra Jehovah's Witness doctrine and stuff like that we're kind of trying to go about it logically reasonably trying not to use ad hominem attacks because obviously you know they say that we're mentally diseased and all that I tried to get mentally diseased on this by the way if in case anybody was wondering where he is and at first he didn't want to and then he changed his mind but then he realized that he was already gonna be busy during the time we were gonna film it so well disappointing well another one of these days we'll get in one with him right mm-hmm one of these days but yeah I think that this will be fine mostly just because this is the sole purpose of this is to poke fun and to make fun of we can talk about stuff seriously as well of course but the goal is to ridicule well Colts just hate to be left at don't they they take themselves very very seriously so we take away some of watchtowers power in the governing bodies power by absolutely refusing to do that so and what I'm down with that completely yeah I actually specifically chose this shit for the the theme so this is because I'm not very good at writing jokes out I prefer to kind of come up with them on the cuff so I love that yeah question for you actually don't you sell those on teespring or something I was looking to you that's a very good question and one that we rehearsed head over to my teespring store I do sell this design with a number of other ones so yeah I saw somebody on teespring the other day just some random person had a yellow shirt that said my book of horror stories or something I thought oh clever oh man and then I think you've got one it's like The Proclaimers book kind of yeah Jehovah's Witnesses Proclaimers of global genocide yeah yes I wish thought I'd come up with some of those I just been batshit do you have merged now like I swore that I just saw an announcement yeah I do I did I I was told that I should make some merch I did and then I made some really bad ads for it it's the badness of the ads that make people want to buy them because it's entertaining to watch them cuz they're so ridiculous well that was my plan right I I'm the only one without merch I don't know what I would do but it's gotta come up with something good I said you got to come up with something good yeah I have to come up with something eventually I'll say something funny enough to put on a t-shirt right okay so I wanted to start off our roast with this my longtime subscriber who is in the live chat right now Ethan Spencer you're the man you're also my very first patron so I thought that I owed it to him he wrote so very funny nish ex-jehovah's witness humor stand-up and he has a bit in there about the governing body and I wanted to read it off because I thought it was really funny I hope that I can do the delivery justice okay it starts off with the newest lawsuit to hit watchtower comes from Santa Fe and Aventis the makers of ambien a direct quote from the lawsuit reads due to his overwhelmingly so for soap errific speeches samuel hurt is actually creating substantial losses in our stock dude a customer is listening to his JW broadcasts instead of taking our product that's funny that's pretty good he's great Ethan yeah he's not wrong some other companies that that side with watchtower include Macallan a public statement from the company has stated that not only do they appreciate the sleep the free publicity from mr. Morris's promotion of their product they'll be using profits to make him a tracksuit very similar to those worn by NASCAR racers they have requested his measurements a pisac Watchtower by assuring them the pants will be a very loose fit sorry Morris is just a walking joke I think 24/7 I would give anything to just be able to follow him around for like a day or maybe even a week and just observe his everyday life because again he's just the gift that keeps on giving yeah I remember I was watching some of your rebuttals to his talks and he was just so incoherent like I the last time I heard talk even that was that incoherent was a wedding talk for a couple that wanted a divorce a week afterwards like it was it was a crazy talk and everybody in the audience is like oh but you can do that for just some random old guy in your congregation everybody's sitting if I had Tony's like and we now know why I can be so incoherent or has been so incoherence because he's hammered most of the time and you what you actually go back and look at some of the recordings and noticed that in some talks he's more coherent than in others and slurs his speech more and less depending on which talk it is and of course now that makes total sense in the context of buckle gait you know what's really said is I was talking to my mom like forever ago like years ago at this point about Tony Morris and I was like talking about some of the crazier things he said and done and you know how the what was it like the fashion industry is run by homosexuals and all this other stuff that he said and she starts agreeing with the dude and she's like oh well you know it is and I was like oh my god this is crazy apparently he is her favorite governing body member because he was in Vietnam and she was in the war around that time too even though she didn't go but yeah really crazy I think of Tony Morris is like the governing body member that really came down hard with the facts and he just wasn't playing around but then looking back at some of the things he said he just was really condescending and rude right yeah yeah just it's just extremely condescending and and very blunt to like he'd talk about you guys remember that bit where he's talking about like what Armageddon is gonna be like and and you think it's scary to see an animal hit on the side of the road or something like that like oh my god were there children in the room for that that's like way over the top I don't mind bluntness and I don't mind people telling it like it says I think we all appreciate honesty but the problem with Tony Morris is that he speaks total nonsense right and what he says comes from a very narrow mind did bigoted narcissistic viewpoint were basically anyone who doesn't agree with him deserves to die and by the way he relishes the opportunity to dispense some of the slaughter according to the to the governing body teachings yeah dude's got issues yeah major major issues uh I think that we could do a whole livestream talking shit about Tony Morris but let's let's not make it just about Tony Morris how many governing body but I'm sorry how many governing body members are there there are seven right I think eight okay yeah I can't name all of them but I can name most of them I think Tony Morris David's playing Stephen let's Kenneth cook Samuel heard well Geoffrey Jackson I'm Sarah Anderson I'm and who's the other one laughter there's always one guy said oh there's one Garrett Loesch yeah that's it lo Sh yeah we've got there in the end we think we didn't take long but yeah that those are the governing party members what was not J witness what we did you say something oh yeah that's either I can't tell if it's depressing or impressive that you can right he's the kind of Jedi activist powers I'm wielding at the moment it's actually interesting that when I was a JW I couldn't do that and I'm probably I'm speaking the same for you guys as well when we were believing JW's we could maybe name one or two you know as a push I can remember visiting Brooklyn Bethel when I was I think 21 or 22 and being introduced to a governing body member and I think it was Garrett Loesch like Baker you recall but I had to be introduced to him I didn't know who he was and it's only when he said oh by the way he's on the governing body that was like how that's amazing but it's interesting how only when you kind of involve yourself in the activism does it become more important to know who they are but also these guys are putting themselves front Center more and more do you – JW broadcasting in the whole focus on video so that they're really in people's faces more nowadays yeah I think when I was Jehovah's Witness they they weren't really publicizing who the members were I I didn't know even a single one of them until I left because then they really start like JW broadcasting didn't exist until after I left I left in like 2000 really kind of stopped going to meetings and stuff about 2008 or so so yeah I'm kind of dated actually like I dated myself out of the religion I haven't been it in 10 years you know that's not that bad I got at least 15 plus years since I was in it so like the whole broadcasting thing I'm learning all of that just last year so yeah I was still I'm still walking around with magazines and stuff yeah for you guys that have been out for so long what was it like for you to hear about all this JW broadcasting stuff and the governing body just you know giving talks and showing their faces and just like being super public about themselves it literally change like that sort of thing seeing that seeing how much the religion has changed since I was in it is literally what made me realize that they're all full of shit goes up until and I'd left the religion but I still believe like I I still held on to the faith I just didn't think I was good enough to be a witness whereas then all of a sudden I realized wait a minute they're all full of shit in the room you know most of the things they do is pretty fucking awful sir change my opinion pretty quick yeah and I think that I I watch how my mom reacted because for like a while she maintained some basic relationship with me up until a few years ago and she was like all about the new light and and had a positive spin on all the changes in jehovah's revealing so much and all this other junk but from the outside you can see that it's bullshit like he was saying like you can see that it's just completely fabricated and they're kind of going from the seat of their tight pants or whatever and and it just doesn't make any sense so anyway like I said I've been out for like what since I was about eighteen and my 30th birthday is in like three weeks gonna sit in a dark room and cry and munch on things like probably ice cream or some I don't know anyway I feel so old I'm approaching my 40th birthday and you're not even 30 I know yeah well we're all getting old we're all getting there and it sucks right I I've been waiting I've been holding this joke I said it last year I don't know if anyone's gonna remember it or not but I've been holding this joke until a video releases around my 30th birthday I've been saying for years that I have one foot in the grave and one on a banana peel now basically it's like after I don't know if you guys have ever noticed this but when you're filling out like internet forms or whatever just like tax forms and stuff they they list age ranges like are you thirteen to seventeen eighteen to twenty five and then if you notice it the next were age range is 26 to dead like they just stopped caring about you at that point anybody else noticed that it's weird give it time everyone stops caring about you after you passed 25 so I still care about uh so I have this is an observation observation that I actually made a long time ago I was still a witness and it's gonna sound silly but after I got after I got out especially you know one of the ways that I here in the governing body described the most often is those eight old guys of the New York that controlled homes with mrs. lives if not for Sam heard it would just be a whole those eight old white guys of the New York but he's just there to be the token black guy he's probably the guy that gives all of his white friends the n-word pass because he thinks it's funny he's one with the group and it's cool that's that is something that even when I was Jehovah's Witness that I thought was just like yeah we've got the governing body and their token black member you know that's interesting I noticed so they don't have a token woman up there of course they would never have a token woman up there but yeah that's an interesting observation and really thought about it I was just a quick one I've never really thought about it are they all Americans like is there any other nationality they're all in America but all right I was gonna say that that I heard that an interesting talk once where I forget who it was was it I think it might actually being Garrett Lowe she was or was it David's plane one of them was describing the different nationalities and making a point of saying that all David's planes from Canada Garrett Lowe she's from us Austria Jeffrey Jackson's from Australia as though to make at all it's just this wonderfully diverse group of mostly white men and they again you see how you have some heard there I can't imagine when he was appointed to the governing body that they must have kind of been passing each other on the back and thinking well there's a big box we've ticked you know a diversity by having one non-white person on the governing body and he you would think with it being a global organization spanning so many different races and and countries and it's it it it pushes that fact in our faces at every opportunity you'd think there'd be at least one Asian on the governing body or Ranma drawing the world's population off indeed or like a Latino on the governing body it is bizarre to think that again the it's such a narrow demographic is represented on the eight members I'm fascinated by water like their hierarchy I'm sorry go ahead God's got a particular King yeah have a particular King actually in general when it comes to survivors of Armageddon because as I've I'm frequently pointing out on my channel if you happen to you know be born in most of Asia or the Middle East or North Africa you're basically screwed because all of those areas fall under the region that's kind of in the quote-unquote other lands the surrender ban and the ratio therefore encountering a witness even some countries that are listed on the worldwide report such as Bangladesh statistically speaking you've got no chance of meeting you Jehovah's Witness so Jehovah is very much partial anyway but he's especially partial when it comes to choosing governing body members I don't know it's like I wonder I I wish I knew more about how their higher their I'm sorry how their hierarchy works I mean I I know of course the basics of it and everything but how do they pick governing body members I imagine it's got to be like a political type of thing right like whoever you're really good friends with because the governing body members when it all comes down to it are no different than anointed people actually in the religion like the there's nothing extra special about them right they're just anointed well I would imagine that you've either the major hurdle is guessing onto the helpers so they've got dozens of helpers who together with the Gov body members make up the governing body committees so there's six committees dealing with various aspects of the organization and once you are a governing body helper and bear in mind helpers also get to host the JW Aude casting episodes or at least some of them do then you in with a real shot but even then it's not a slam dunk because you've also got to be brave enough to say that you're one of the anointed and yeah not all helpers are able to do that so if you're a governing body helper and you're brave enough to say that you're one of the anointed or you're like a substitute for a lapsed anointed which I think I've depending on how you read the theology is kind of what you have to believe yeah then then Ewing with a chance but it's even then it's clearly not it's clearly a very exclusive club to get into the governing body I'd love to know more about that culture like how you know what it's like to be a helper and in there with the governing body members and what it's like to declare that you're anointed up you know in Bethel and stuff I remember when I was little I was in a congregation in the Northeast because I lived in Connecticut and I was at the memorial one time and I remember one of the brothers in the congregation quickly took a bite of the bread and drank the wine and everyone gasps yeah he's anointed oh my god he's declaring it you know everybody was so happy it was so crazy anyway I don't know it's just really crazy yeah but that's a coming-out party that people he elaborates in the job as witnesses yeah have you ever seen somebody partake of the stuff would not personally no although I what one of the guys on my MTS class started partaking he's actually the reason why my wife and I met because he was the one a member of my classroom Croatian it was due to visiting his congregation on our reunion that I met my wife and ended up me to Croatia but not long after leaving MTS he started partaking of the emblems and claiming that he was one of the anointed but he's actually so delusional that he very quickly ended up turning apostate not not apostate in it in a good way apostate in ur you know I'm going to heaven and and this religion doesn't recognize my belief so I'm gonna join the Bible students and become a Russ Alliance so he ended up becoming a Russell i'ts and I thirst I checked he's not even with them anymore or maybe he is I think he actually does have a youtube channel where he espouses in Croatian the teachings of Charles taze Russell so wow that's fascinating I would love to get a glimpse into that dude's head like what yeah what how did that progress right oh it's so crazy man yeah I'm not gonna boil you but he's quite a character I can't even I I knew anointed people but I never saw anybody partake as far as as far as I can remember and just yeah that whole culture is just fascinating I can't even imagine what kind of a boys club it is like obviously it is because when we can't take leadership roles but just like like whose ass do you have to kiss and like what what kind of stuff are they even looking for what does it feel like what what do they think is spirit anointing what do they think that is what sensation or thought leads them to legitimately believing that and you know what since we're talking about legitimate beliefs what do you guys think do you think that all or some of the governing body members are not in fact completely delusional but are in fact in on it and purposely like conning people let's go to at least be some of them what do you think later I have a little bit of an opinion on this which is actually informed on your opinion but what do you what are your thoughts on it I think yeah it's very very tempting to think that maybe a majority even of governing body a cynical and they kind of sit sit there Wednesday morning meetings kind of twiddling their thumbs thinking how was the optimum way of screwing over millions to people I don't think that they are that cynical but the fact remains that they have a front-row seat on the very worst of the organization and they know things about the organization that will never see the light of day and we think that what we know about the organization is bad if we could get a glimpse into what they know it would just take things to a whole new level of evil as far as I'm concerned so they get a front row seat to how evil the organization is and yet they still managed to maintain their delusion and and feel this is something that they need to perpetuate so when I say that they are mostly deluded that doesn't mean they're not evil because some of the most deluded people in history have been evil and done evil things I just think that it's a nuanced situation where the human mind is so complicated that you can both be genuine and also cynical so it's possible in some areas though they're very cynical and they kind of know at some level that it's BS but while at the same time entertaining a notion that there's something special about them in particular and they have a role to play in God's one and only true organization so I think that the scary thing is is that it's actually quite complicated and but I I agree with not Joe witness that probably there's one or two characters for whom it it's his more cynical than delusional yeah I think that gray friends said in his book crisis of conscience that he thought that there may be a few up there in the higher ranks who do who are you know who know what they're doing and who were just doing it because but the majority he thought were genuine and really believed to their own BS and and we're delusional like you said and so I kind of I side with him on that I think the majority of them genuinely believe their own BS genuinely think it's true and and are just nut cases basically yeah which is scary to ponder but it kind of makes sense and who better to comment on it than ray France I think he used the phrase victims of victims yeah which sums up quite well yeah another thing about the governing body is I'll shoot I lost where I was going with that it just slipped right out of my head oh I was gonna say um Jehovah's Witnesses follow like alright so Stephen Assange bite model outlines a number of points that that many cults just hit perfectly like it's uncanny and and looking at how Jehovah's Witnesses are controlling people through thought stopping techniques and controlling this behavior that behavior through a system of rewards and punishments and things like that it could lead you to think they must know what they're doing they must but I just think it's a pattern that emerges it's like an emergent property of religions a lot of the time unless it's actively fought against like in the case of some super liberal chill Methodist churches who don't hate anybody for anything mm-hmm you know when you've done back and look at the organization it almost has the properties of a person in how how evil unsophisticated and conniving the whole thing is and you know the bite model helps us to draw parallels with other groups that have have the same properties but I think the very fact that other groups with completely different theologies and belief systems can arrive at the same properties gives us a clue as to how these kind of characteristics and attributes can kind of accumulate it's because if if you are an organization that wants to control people you're gonna just happen upon the best way of doing that one way or the other given given enough time and in this case decades we see in nature it's called convergent evolution where two completely different species can end up having the same attributes hummingbirds and hawkmoth sorry yeah Hawk moths are a good example they both have the same method of guessing nectar from from flowers so yeah I think we see the same thing with cults it's really really fascinating that's a really good point a similar point about how it you can kind of see it evolving into the cult than it is over time like it started out with a few fanatics with no crazy rules that they just had a very peculiar theology but over time politics were introduced into it and there was a power struggle obviously with with Rutherford and that's when it became more about control more about keeping members more about making people listen to you I mean obviously it wasn't just then obviously it's kind of an ongoing process and they and I they've found new ways to get to people over time and I yeah and I would I would agree that I don't necessarily think that at least most of them are purposefully trying to deceive people and con people but at the same time it's it is difficult for me to imagine the amount of cognitive dissonance that it takes for a governing body member to go and spend hundreds of dollars on expensive alcohol and then go on a broadcast to tell people to donate to the worldwide work like it's crooked how how do you do that and not think this might be dishonest like you have I think that he has to at least be aware that is shady as hell quick yeah there's no way around that one if he does genuinely believe he could literally just be thinking he's in such a special position that you okay I'm a special person I'm unique and so it's okay for me you know which i think is what a lot of elders do don't they I mean I think we've all been there even as even as JW's where we've we've done stuff that we know we oughtn't do or that we know could single as out for annihilation Armageddon but we we make excuses for ourselves and we think well I'm doing my best in these other areas I'm sure Jehovah's gonna let me off on this so if all three if elders and even ordinary JW's are doing that you can only imagine the extent to which governing body members doing it given how narcissistic they are and how they you know they believe that they are something special and they've been singled out to be God's spokespersons you know so I can imagine them making a lot of excuses for themselves narcissism I can't like I knew that they think of themselves as humble men but it's so obvious that they're not it's so obvious that they recognize where they are like my fiance and I were talking the other day and he's a musician he goes to bars and does a couple of hours of singing in guitar and stuff like that and he's kind of at a point where he's like yeah I'm good people tell me all the time that they can't believe how great I am and I don't mean that in a way that's like you know I I don't mean that in a way that I think that I'm amazing but I know that I'm good like if they at least acknowledged they know that they're in a high position and that people do you know they do have people's adoration that would be one thing but they're just like oh little old me I still go to doors no no no sometimes I'm just a regular old witness we are we not they sort of do acknowledge it but it's in a very slimy way like Steven let does this I think I was commenting on it in my Friday rebuttal video for the convention he uses I think the phrase I'd fall on is kind of vanity humor but there's actually a more precise phrase for it it's when you make a joke that is really intended to draw attention to how amazing you are and how popular you are and and Steven let does this at the start of one of his talks where he's joking about the fact that his audience are essentially guinea pigs because he is due to be delivering this same talk to loads of other conventions and this is the first time he's ever done it so he's joking about it but and and he's getting loads of laughs from the audience but what he's really doing is saying to the audience I'm a big deal I travel a lot I get to give this talk at multiple conventions isn't-isn't am I not great you know and so they do do it but it's in a very kind of unappealing you know vain way yeah and just so you know I am planning on going to all three days of the convention so no spoilers oh god you're braver than I am yeah I had I was originally just you know last year I went because my mother asked me to and now I've told my mother pretty bluntly hey I'm never gonna be of Jehovah's Witness again and she didn't invite me today she didn't invite me to the memorial this year so I'm assuming she's not gonna invite me to the convention either but I'm gonna show up anyway because now I want to know what shenanigans they're getting up to I want to sit in the same chair that I used to sit in and hear the same or a new spin on the outrageous things that they say with new ears you know I don't I don't just want to see snippets well I do but I really want to sit there and take in the whole thing like a Jehovah's Witness like everybody else talking me and do it over here right now well if I predict that that will be difficult for you I I admire your optimism but I think after the first I'm gonna say half an hour you'll be like oh my god what a I recorded an hour of sorrow or maybe 50 minutes of a talk they did from last year's convention and just sitting through that one talk by the end of it I was out I couldn't I could not hold myself there anymore it was that bad I in it you have a whole different you listen to it in a whole different way and then you realize that you sitting there in the middle of all these people that are completely brainwashed and then lapping it up and then you realize all I'm sitting in between my family as well and I don't realize that I'm now looking at it from another point of use that was really heavy oh man are we not going to be sitting with my family unless they they do save seeds for me they did last year but because they invited me but I highly like I said I had to go they're gonna invite me this well you're gonna be aware that that they're in the audience with you at least aren't ya and this is the and I've been in the same like district region whatever they call it for pretty much my entire life so I will a lot of the people in that room we're gonna know me and I know them if you know me my whole life um so yeah do you think any will talk to you how many of your friends your old friends I mean maybe under different circumstances they would I don't know but definitely not in front of everybody else ya know I'm trying to figure out when my convention takes place I I can't find it do you know what yours is I already got the time off of work for it I think it's end of July or August I hope mine didn't already pass that would be disappointing you've actually talked to me into it if I can make it then I'm going to – my gosh I'll bring my like my my like rebel t6i camera and set it up and film the whole thing the whole thing and tear it apart after that because we're not gonna film but I'm gonna take notes on the talk like yeah like I'll probably do some bite model comparisons if I can we should work together on that if you do at the point of the convention – we should do something together on that okay I'm down that's not realize you can watch the entire convention from the compass of your own your own home if you have the links which I have but I also I also kind of want to go to the convention and let everybody see you Ted yeah that's a fair point go Lloyd I there will be people that I know there and honestly it's you know gauge their reaction you want to see what effects is having on the audience I oisin want to see how other people like if they say something batshit crazy and I look around everybody's nodding their head that's part of the experience to me you know yeah it's not gonna be fun let me ask you this all of you guys what do you guys think would happen if say I walk up to a Jehovah's Witness on the street a you know street cart witnessing and I'm just chatting it up and then I tell them I'm an apostate and then I explained that you know I'm I'm deeply invested in jehovah's witness or extra whose witness activism how do you think that they would react do you think like do you think that they i am under the suspicion that they may physically turn around and face the other direction yeah of course i don't want to harass anybody or anything something but you don't need to do that do you I think that my approach is to say I'm not a Jehovah's Witness but I have family who are Jehovah's Witnesses yeah both of which are true and and the fact that I have family who would your home as witnesses opens excuse me gives me an excuse for letting on that I know certain things without them saying well how do you know that if I if that if I have immediately told them at the beginning I have family who are Jehovah's Witnesses then I'm excusing all of the things I say that less on that I know about them but I honestly recommend as I know as I know you do Oh in yeah Street epistemology is as the way of kind of engaging with people in that situation because I think a lot can be achieved simply by having just by asking questions and letting them express in their own words how batshit crazy their beliefs are and you can you can make them do that just by steering the conversation with a few questions and hopefully just plant the seed that way yeah 100% agree with you on that the best way is to be it's to keep the guard down that's really the goals keep that guard from going up yet the moment it goes up the conversations over they view you as an enemy and you're not making any more progress period so just try to be non confrontational and draw it out of them nice and slow so yeah a hundred percent with you on that one I actually have a little bit of story about this when I was in high school I started dating this guy and I wasn't supposed to obviously it was a shame on you yes shame on me but um he was an atheist and he actually did his research like right up front because we were let me say this it was a rebound relationship so I was emotionally invested very quickly like way more than I should have been for as long as we've been talking but we we had we had briefly discussed a bunch of things and among which were like hey I'm a very religious person and you're not religious at all and I don't know if we ever had kids how would we even handle a situation like that but so he did some research though on Jehovah's Witnesses and he marries I think that he went to JW facts and he was just kind of like uh so I've been reading some stuff and I'm like oh the internet lies about us it's just just go to JW org and then he sent me he ended up giving me this entire like he wrote me a letter basically explaining to me that I was in a dangerous cult and that I needed to and then he saw that I was a smart and logical and reasonable person and he couldn't understand why I believed this and that he wanted to help me get out of it he wasn't put off by the father you were talking about kids already with him this was a week long relationship yeah it was it was it was crazy we were both yeah crazy kids but it was just it was a situation where like I said he was clearly doing this with the best of intentions and I was I just immediately shut it down I didn't I didn't hear a word of it except that I saw basically that he called my religion occult and then I was like well you're wrong and I I called him some names and actually the funny thing is years later I contacted at him and I was like hey you are totally right thank you for trying well I appreciate the effort you went through and I'm sorry that it severed our relationship at the time because you were obviously just trying to help me and I understand that now because I came to the same conclusion that you did eventually but yeah I've never had a situation where anybody even like the clearly most well-intentioned person tried to tell me anything is a Jehovah's Witness that was contrary to what I already believed about the religion it was just an immediate shutdown yeah I what is it you there did we lose you well anyway I was gonna say I remember there were issues you guys can hear me can't you yeah okay there were issues originally with my relationship like coming out of Jehovah's Witnesses I got into this relationship with this girl and ended up having a kid with her and all of these issues that we had stemmed from my beliefs in Jehovah's Witnesses like I wanted my kid to go to the meetings and learn about Jehovah and I didn't want the kid to take blood transfusions and all of this other crazy stuff lucky for me as time went on I started caving on those things like I guess it's not that big of a deal if she goes to meetings or not I can teach her myself if I want to and I don't have a blood card so whatever you know but as time went on I started to realize like holy shit what was I thinking I my daughter's life was in so much danger for the first like five years of her life when I still believed this I'm just so glad that like there wasn't like a car accident and she needed a blood transfusion or something or there wasn't some problem with the pregnancy yeah that's that's what I was thinking because my experience and it sucks don't underestimate the power of bias and really and bias we all have bias none of us likes to be confronted with a statement that completely contradicts beliefs that we hold dear to us so you you could have you could confront a jehovah's witness with can't kind of with like a slogan that is entirely true so you could you could go up to a Jehovah's Witness and say your religion hides pedophiles and that statement is true but you're confronting them with something that they that simply they cannot afford to be true and they don't want to be true and therefore it isn't true and the only excuse they need to dismiss that statement is well apostates are liars and and here they are lying and to make it even worse they're they're trying to accuse my religion of hiding pedophiles which clearly it would never do so yeah it really and I think your friend learnt the hard way about using the cult word I use the word cult but I don't think I'd use it when speaking to a believing Joe as witness and the same goes for what facts I would choose to present to a Jehovah's Witness in fact I don't think I'd want to present any facts I just want to present them with questions and let them like draw their own conclusions yes Socratic reasoning kind of thing yes I definitely think that's the best way to do it because then you aren't the one making accusations or anything like leave facts completely out of the equation because they don't matter even if the fat to 100% against them which but many of them are doesn't matter that's not there they don't believe for the sake of the facts really like if you if you boil it down and ask them if the if we knew for a fact that this thing wasn't true or the Bible is tampered with or whatever other thing people would say well I'd still believe it's really the best way of life for me yes exactly it all it all boils down to faith in the end and that's what you want to get to and you want them to get there themselves so that's really the best that that's the key to it but we've digressed from the governing body we need to Briere hoc governing body by the way I love your pictures in the background I think I talked to you about these the other day but those pictures are really really fantastic what are this so we have here Stephen let's hold rubber face we've got Tony Morris in a compromising situation inside bottle King this one isn't actually a governing body member he's just the bunker elder from the bunch of videos yeah and that's Gary bro who isn't a governing body member but he wasn't for low gates yeah because this is the built this is the pillow gate wall I specifically chose this wall cladding to imitate pillowcase oh is that what it was that yeah basically I have way too much time on my hands as you can probably tell so I love it man oh great but yeah go ahead sorry when you when you say what do you call it Stephen let old rubber face that reminded me of something really funny and I'm gonna try a screen share this real quick let me see if I can get this to work my fiancee was telling me how Stephen and let's face reminds him of hold on let me get this up reminds him of a snake unhinging it's ja to swallow something bigger than it is possible right he says his face always looks like it's about to fall off when he's talking yeah we warmly welcome you dear brothers that's 1w broadcasting oh my god that was an American accent you just say that was like God I'm so glad we have that in recording that is awesome he even does the pointing like like this you know how does that yeah the dude is a creep like all right let me ask you guys this do you think that he's faking that like some some public people kind of have faked inflections and say yeah like a public persona like to some extent I think that I do too a little bit like my voice goes up a little bit and things like that and I move my hands around do you think that what he's doing there is is a public persona do you think that's what he does when he's in the comfort of his own home with his wife and kids I'm having really weird mental visions now of Steven life well just for comedy's sake I hope so now oh yeah I just need some time I need to kind of gather my thoughts that's quite disturbing so yeah I think that it is his kind of public persona however and and I would say as well I've seen a video of him giving like a closed-door speech to Bethel lights so this is not like a convention or anything this is basically speaking to his colleagues he's giving like it's a leaked video where he's talking to people who are in the video Department they have this massive studio where they do all the videos and he tones it down a little bit which is interesting he's still speaking in what we would consider to be kind of an over the top way but it's at least a little bit dialed down it's it's no longer on turn it's maybe on seven you know so I can only imagine that if you speak to him one-on-one maybe the seven goes down to five or four you know so I think that that is his way of talking but how extreme it is depends on the situation that makes sense well you gotta give him this he grabs your attention with it and yeah though it's easy to make fun of him you don't forget it so that there is that I mean he has that going for him I don't know like charismatic yeah exactly like yes it's interesting and its attention catching but it's like yeah it feels plastic almost yeah it's like shit for me it's like children's television you know it's like his whole delivery style and this is true to a degree of most of the speakers and most of the content on JW broadcasting but his style is overly simplistic and I'm added to an overly simplistic dialogue or script it's just it's still to fiying to watch and I only watch the stuff cuz I'm it's kind of my job now to do rebuttals to it but you know it is it's actually quite painful to watch the raw kind of unedited material yeah like for the JW broadcasting stuff I mean yeah yeah it was painful enough to watch as a Jehovah's Witness right but those were my best family worship night so we were like okay we're gonna watch broadcasting because I was like okay cool right you like your phone and stuff I was literally talking to my boyfriend during that was like I mean talking to my boyfriend and my girlfriend like hey that's fascinating I don't understand the culture behind it because it wasn't around when I was witness well this is something my family did before was that sometimes for family worship we would watch one of the videos but obviously there weren't that many videos before but when kW Broadcasting was introduced at least one family worship every month usually the first one that we of the month would be all of us sitting down and watching the broadcast and at the end we would just discuss you know what our favorite parts were what we learned but that required minimal attention paying that part minimal paying attention to just take out something to be like I liked this you know I liked that part where that sister said the thing it was did you find any of it persuasive some of the talks if I felt like it applied to me that I was listening more obviously but I wise it wasn't like yes basically no like it would make me think about it was usually something I already knew I was supposed to be doing and then I'd be like I really should do that and that's pretty much the only thing that I'd come away with if I was like hmm yeah I know I'm supposed to do that they reminded me and that would be it I can imagine I would have found the testimonies persuasive or at least some of the system oh nice persuasive especially when it's kind of on an emotional issue and you see them getting all emotional that's a big thing on Jay to be broadcasting where they have people either crying or almost crying on camera exactly Felicity sneeze B yeah which was a very kind of exploitative way that they kind of took her story it's a little girl who actually ended up dying not long after featuring on the broadcast she her family had to transport her from Australia where she was born to a hospital in America a specialist hospital due to her having multiple health issues for which it seems clear reading between the lines that she otherwise would have required blood transfusions but they took her to a hospital that actually specializes in non blood treatment and that they said that it was talking all about how they'd received great hospitality when traveling to America and that kind of thing but ultimately they were exploiting a very poorly girl and her and her condition as as as a recruitment tool as a means of talking about how wonderful the organization is and I know that now because I'm on the outside I can imagine when I was if I'd have been on the inside the testimonies would have kept my attention possibly and would have they're the things that I because I've always related to human stories which is why I do interviews now human human stories are the most compelling thing for me and I would have probably zoned out during most of the actual speeches and just focused purely on the testimonies probably yeah that's kind of their signature isn't it to do that kind of thing yeah that was very much mostly the case for us almost never was anybody's favorite part of the broadcast the actual talks most of the time it was yeah personal testimonies and experiences and stuff like that and sometimes but very rarely I think it would be those like made up videos dramatizations yes dramatizations very rarely because it were often unrealistic yeah yeah I think I don't need to say any more than that but they were they're really unrealistic they're kind of exaggerated and overblown and horrible acting oh my god yes that's that that's their signature too if you think about it but I yeah I was kind of on the outside of this I don't know if you got let me let me date myself here in the religion I'll tell you what I remember last when I was just leaving they still had I remember my parents owned the two movies on VHS tape the purple triangle and stand firm we owned those and I remember at the conventions they they weren't doing video they were just doing dramas like and it was like this big honor to be involved in the drama do you remember the drama that would like the one thing I actually whoa I don't if I enjoyed them it wasn't like but oh my favorite part of the adventures because everything else was so goddamn boring yeah it wasn't one bit of play you know after the chorus or I was actually in a drama I was in one of the last ones that they did it was great yeah it was the ester one I think that's awesome well kind of not really did you play I played a servant the casting list said she was supposed to be Ethiopian and apparently they didn't even know anybody else who was black so they were like okay Rachel and it was a blast and the whole cast got so close and you know what I was still I like to this day I'm still proud of what we did because the actor who was playing Haven was a miserable actor and the only reason he was chosen for that part was because there was a part in the in the drama where he was supposed to touch ester so the person who played Haman had to be related to her like a father-in-law or something in real life and he was just a miserable actor why he he was not even well he wasn't that he wasn't trying but he just didn't know how to act and by the end of it he literally had the audience like rolling laughing because of the way that he was just being like out there and over the top and really it was great it was a wonderful experience it was probably one of the best Jehovah's Witness related experiences that I had but now you know anymore do they yeah they don't and now when I first see any of those people I've run into some of the people that I was in the drama with by the Fellowship didn't did not talk that sucks yeah that that happens I was never involved in a drama but I knew that it was like a huge well I was partially it was a huge honor to be involved in the dramas but I know that like my mom would like so curtains and you know make like clothing and stuff for them and so I neg fake bids she didn't she never made the failure that would be I I wonder who does do they buy the fake beards I would love to say I want to have a photo of the the fake beard section of the prop Department in the audio visit audio/video services at Bethel ugh please just be so hilarious to see all those things heads in a row brilliant that would be awesome that we had for our drama we're extremely skilled like they literally just looked at the pictures in the publications I think it was of the imitate their Facebook because they had a lot of illustration semester they literally just looked at those and pretty much replicated the exact things that they were wearing for actors and I was extremely impressed by their work it was yeah I also liked I liked the drama section because it was like a huge break from the the boringness but I also liked the baptism section because that was another break from the boring that's like you stand up and you're clapping and moving around a little bit and stuff you know and somebody told me like shortly after maybe shortly after I got baptized or something you're not supposed to give gifts for people who get baptized because it's this may or may not be true I don't know of its doctrine this is just what some jota's witness told me at the time or maybe told my parents or something you're not supposed to give gifts because it's something that they're supposed to be doing anyways so you're not supposed to be praising it when somebody does something right you're supposed to be chastising when they do it wrong or some other thing my parents got me a briefcase for baptism so I still have it somewhere yeah that's funny right all Jehovah's Witnesses do similar things what did you get for your baptism weight anything I gotta head out in a second by the way I got a deluxe New World Translation it didn't have my name inscribed you just had a nice message in it from my mom so yeah yeah that's something do you still have it I do yeah have it somewhere yeah actually I actually replicated the message inside in the reluctant apostate because yeah it was yeah because it was quite touching how she had these ideas of who I would be in and what I should strive for that she wrote down in the in the book and I think it was based on a Bible verse and I I revisited those words in my final letter to her towards the the end I forget exactly how I did it but she was basically talking about how I needed to stay awake stand firm and grow mighty and harami let's go yeah and so I said I feel I've done those things maybe not in the way that you expected me to at the time but I feel I have awakened and stood firm against an oppressive bullying organization and grown might in doing so so well said I can agree to that does anybody have any final remarks just that we've been thin on governing body jokes but mostly that mostly that's because the governing body are a joke yeah and are entirely unworthy of any kind of devotion or or loyalty or even respect these are men who lie to people lie to children and preside over an abusive organization that ruins lives so they deserve zero respect and maximum mockery and if you're a jehovah's witness who's watching this please take to heart some of the things we've sorry am i back now you're back yeah we caught ya Mary ended that just say the last sentence I thought I was just giving I was just giving the date for Armageddon and you've missed it now but no just that they are they really are unworthy of respect operation yeah they're just men who claim to be God's mouthpiece but then say they're not inspired because that would be presumptuous but basically they what is worth listening to from them if they if they can't even get straight whether or not they are in fact in being led by Holy Spirit are God's mouthpiece if they can't even get that straight what what do they have to say that is worth listening to to the point that it's you base your whole life around everything they say yeah yeah well thing about they should give up their authority yeah I agree okay well that was fun this was fun and yeah we didn't stay on topic very well and I don't care I think that I mean what the governing body does trickles down to everything else about jehovah's witness life so you know so it's still a criticism with them to a degree no I really appreciate you having having me on and I hope to have you on my channel soon if you're up for it I'll be really nice okay brilliant and thank you guys so much for coming on my channel and having this discussion I think this has been really fun and really productive and I do hope some Jawas witnesses see this and kind of see that we're like normal folks and that we're not crazy raving about you know mentally diseased yeah well he couldn't make it yeah yeah yeah again thank you guys so much for coming and I hope you guys enjoyed this to eiope read it absolutely yeah thanks for having me take care guys all right bye bye peace

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