"Don't call it a People's Vote!" | Mike Graham

"Don't call it a People's Vote!" | Mike Graham



it's a very strange strangely timed sort of intervention this isn't it by the European Court of Justice Advocate General I mean if this was the case why is he not said it before well a lot of people have said similar things in the past you've had leaders of most of or and quite a number of EU Member States you've had Donald Tusk you've had Emmanuel macron saying that if the UK wanted to change its mind before the end of the article 50 process then of course we could stay in the EU and that seems a perfectly reasonable thing given that we've not actually left yet and until we leave we remain a member state with all the rights and obligations of a member state and today's the UK public chose to take a different view for example through a people's votes at the end of this process I'd really rather you didn't I'd rather you didn't refer to people's vote on this show Frances just call it a second referendum and let's keep calling it what it is because it's not any more of a people's vote the last people's vote to be honest well we could call it a third referendum after the one in 1970 what if you like I'd prefer that as well that's fine their point I mean this the reason this is happening now is because there's been a cross-party group I believe Scottish MPs who brought this legal action and it happens to be coinciding now with this whole shambles that we're seeing unfolding before us in Parliament where the government is trying to pretend still that the choice really on offer is between the government's deal which I think probably all agree is the deal that satisfies no one and solves nothing and certainly doesn't deliver on the promises that were made in 2016 or crashing out with no deal with all the damage that that could do and I think what this verdict let's bitter so let's let's be clear this is advice from a senior advisor to the European Court of Justice it's not a ruling it's not a final verdict but what this suggests is that as most of us on my saw the argument have long said that it's you know there is a third option we can still choose to keep the existing deal we've got in the EU well we can't no we can't no because we've had a referendum and the majority of people that voted in that referendum voted to leave the European Union so it's not true to say that we have the option of remaining in it because we've already voted to leave it well look I the case though I think you I think the way this would play out obviously is you would have another referendum you would have a referendum on the terms of brexit at the end of this process III don't think Parliament could simply just stop brexit from happening I think you would need a mandate from the people and I think actually if you look the way things are panning out in Parliament we've got complete gridlock there is no majority in parliament for any particular form of brexit and it seems to me likely route out of that mess is to put it back to the people I mean we've always known that Parliament it's pretty much full of people who don't want to leave the European Union even those MGP represent their own constituencies that are voted to leave are still very sort of a soft on the whole idea of it and I'd rather we weren't leaving and I don't think Teresa may particularly wants to leave you in Union either which is why I've always said since the beginning of the result of the referendum though I don't think it will actually happen I think they'll continue to sort of you know filibuster and put it off and you know kickings in long grass for as long as they possibly can however the only place where there is a majority of feeling for leaving the European Union is in the great British public who have voted already in a referendum call it whatever you like where they said we want to leave the European Union now it doesn't really matter to me whether we have another referendum which will then be more specific because you can't be that specific in a referendum anyway you know and there is nobody in this country that actually agrees with that person next to them about how brigs it should happen but that's not really the point the point is is there are a large enough body of people who want to leave and so that that mandate has already been determined Julie well look I think the first point to say is just on your first point about Parliament being you know packed with people who want to remain we've had more than two and a half years now since through effort about two and a half years since the referendum we've had both the governing party the Conservatives because they're effectively coalition partners the DUP the the opposition party the Labour Party have all been committed to delivering brexit and so I think to claim that Parliament has been trying to thwart brexit since day one well it is simply not true it's true really seriously believe dousset Francis do you really seriously believe that's a reason may and her cabinet of largely remain uh types has actually been in your words committed to anything well yeah I mean he telling me that she's not committed no she's not in her deal do you think she'd rather I mean I just I just completely disagree with that she's staked her entire political career on getting that deal through I think it's absurd to suggest I think you're being very naive crying you know I think you'll be very naive and I don't you're being very conspiratorial I think that's just ridiculous thing to say okay all right well so when the European Union comes up on Friday and says well don't worry if you can't make the deadline on March 29th we'll give you a three-month extension I think that will happen first of all and up number two if it does happen that will prove the point and prove the case that actually this is exactly what will happen for the next several months and possibly years to come or perhaps what that means is that the brexit that she is trying to deliver and the various commitments that were made during the referendum cannot be delivered there were a host of contradictory promises she look she's done her best I believe that I think I think she has I think with a playing a ridiculously poor hand where she was you know leave campaigners promised for a start we would have the exact same benefit when we left the EU Liam Fox said this should be the easiest trade agreement in human history we were told we're going to have extra money for the NHS for all our public services and so and we wouldn't pay a penny to the EU and we could carry on trading with you on the exact same terms now is simply not true and so the the chaos that we're seeing in Parliament now is a product of the fact that that brexit cannot be delivered and like I said the reason Moe's done her best she's come back with a deal I think is arguably you know the best she could have got given the circumstances but it just turns out that it's a really bad deal and it's not what was promised and it's certainly not better than what we've got Julie yes surely Frances Frances you surely should be able to see as the deputy director of open Britain that this is actually not a bad deal for those of you who want to remain in the European Union because one of the reasons that she's getting so much criticism in Parliament from those who would like to leave Brit brings it with a bit of a harder edge to it is because it's actually quite a soft brigs it and it means that for a few years to come we will really have a similar relationship with the European that we have now so I don't understand why my remainders don't like the deal because well as I said because he's significantly worse than what we've got now and it would turn us into effectively a country that follows all the rules made by the EU and but just give up our very powerful influential seat at the table as can you tell me I mean yes people say this all the time can you so can you tell me or give me one example Francis of when we have used are very powerful seat at the table to negotiate a better deal from the European Union than the one that they gave us because I can't look we've been if we ever done a powerful voice at the table since we joined the European Union a 1970 build the single market which is the largest free-trade that's area in the world is about free trade we've created the rules of the biggest single market in the world that doesn't have to change it doesn't need to change it probably won't change because as we've often heard all of the people with whom we do trade are more than happy to keep that trade going they don't want it to stop they don't want it to suddenly become more expensive to trade in the UK and neither do they want to buy things from the UK which will cost more money so none of that is going to change and so that isn't absolutely not to nonsense to say that and secondly we couldn't even protect our own fishing rights with this so-called powerful seat of the European Union table so what was the point of it well look I mean I find the idea that we've not been a influential leader in Europe well we created the single market which is the biggest free trade area in the world we brought it control we brought in countries from the former Soviet Union the authoritarian it was a ridiculous democracy we failed to stop the war in the Balkans from happening after we did that as well well I mean if you if you can really tell me that you think we're going to be more influential in Europe or the wider world outside of the EU then I mean well we're still I still I believe we're still a member of the United Nations Security Council are we not and we'll still continue to be so because we were part of that before the European Union we are not influenced I'm not an influential power relevant point why is it in a relevant point you just said we're not influential we're on the UN Security Council is only five countries will be less influential if we leave the EU I mean well I think we're just gonna have to agree to disagree there but I put the question back to you do you think that this is a brexit deal that is good for our country and that will you know that will make our country more prosperous in the future I have no idea and neither do you France is our young people honestly don't know because nobody knows and in fact everyone that tries to predict whether it's good or bad is absolutely barking up the wrong tree misleading the public and being totally disingenuous so those people who voted to leave the European Union what I do know is that we have voted to leave therefore we should leave now if this is the only deal that Teresa may concurrently get which is what she tells us then we should go for it on the basis that that is what the people want and if you aren't so arrogant that you think you could stand up against that side of democracy and say no this should never happen because it's a bad idea and I'm sorry you don't like it but it's none of your business to stop it well I think if you look at poll after poll that's emerging about the deal got everything wrong poll said Hillary people who think the good deal and something that we should accept but this side was a good deal Francis denied a contrary to what you said the will of the people is not aesthetic thing and democracy is now going that ended although you just want to keep going until you win I mean there's no evidence for example if there wants to be a second referendum or a third as you call it that you would win it anyway I mean there really isn't dozens of polls over the last six months showing a lead remain of an 1/8 the polls right the last you can poll said that remain was gonna win the last referendum and they were wrong weren't they well actually going into the campaign things were about level pegging and they finished fairly close to level pegging I think it's pretty pathetic that all you've got to cling on to as a life raft is a few polls Frances is that what besties I think what you're clinging on to is the fact no I'm clinging on to the fact that the vote was to leave we've taken more than two-and-a-half years ago the outcome of which has not been in any way delivered or fulfilled by the deal on the table and public opinion is now shifting and you think that the public should just be completely written out of the process and solution to the problem in Parliament how are you gonna get the deal through or is your view that we should just crash out with no deal well the point about parliamentary democracy Frances is that they have a vote when they have a vote I'll tell you how we should proceed if the vote goes wrong for Tereza May next Tuesday then she will have another vote and my belief is that she will somehow by hook or by crook get that vote through because at the end of the day we have to move on we cannot sit here like spoiled children for the rest of time shaking our little fists crying out and saying this is not fair it's not fair I don't like it you know in the end Frances you have to accept that the people have spoken and they have voted to leave the European Union and that's the end of that okay well I respect your view you think that democracy is static and that they belong I mean it's I just find the view that you know in a in a situation in which there is no majority for anything in Parliament I mean you're hook or by crook as you say she will get it true personally I don't see that at the moment I really don't know neither one of us is gonna get that through Parliament who's where the votes are going to come from which members of the Jacob Riis mogs ERG are gonna suddenly or the DUP are suddenly going to row in behind the deal then fine you can say that until you can explain where those votes are going to come from just saying by hook or by crook is literally like licking your finger and putting it in the air and saying I think you know it's just and for you they say and for you to say anything different is the same my point is we've done none of us have a crystal ball many many pundits have got this spectacularly wrong over every single step of the way nobody apparently despite the fact that everybody's got their eyes trained on Downing Street and Brussels knew that the deal was even coming a couple of weeks ago kinda came out of the blue nobody saw that nobody had an idea of what Theresa May was doing behind the scenes nobody had a clue about how it was all going to work out so you are and you know just as kind of ignorant as I am about what the future is like it's a hold we don't know so let's see what happens and when and if the vote is is lost next week let's have another conversation and see where we go from there but you know at the moment all I know is that democracy is not static at all but you cannot ignore it just when you feel like ignoring it you have to admit that you lost the vote therefore you know you have to you have to give those in bunny vote the time to actually do what the vote says I completely accept all that and look there's been like I said there's been two and a half years of a negotiation with the European Union where the government has tried his utmost I think we agreed on that earlier this year it's not that the government has not tried to get a good deal they've tried everything and this is what they've come back with it seems to be a universally unpopular although there are some I you know I accept like you who say yes it's not a good deal but we should accept it anyway I think that that's not a you know it's not a very optimistic or sort of hopeful vision for our country is you know saying this is a bad deal but we should just swallow it anyway and well if you believe in democracy leaving the EU you should swallow it because that's the point we're leaving the EU at what cost I mean neither do Frances well okay though we may well be leaving the EU as things stand we are on course to leave the EU yeah my the problem I have is that we're heading for a situation where Parliament cannot resolve this and there is no outcome there is no deal on the table apart from the one the government is produced for which there is no majority in parliament conversation I'm afraid we're running out of time France I'm gonna have to say one last thing to you right if they can't resolve it then that's not their problem in the end because in the end we've already solved it by having a referendum it's not it's only Parliament that suddenly coming at the end and decided they want to ratify it and because of Teresa major ineptitude she's allowed them to do so that doesn't mean that because they can't figure it out that it won't actually happen I like this agree I think Parliament has a duty and a responsibility to deliver what they've been instructed to do and that's what they're trying to do as amazing review neatly turns out they're not able to do that in a way that doesn't fundamentally damage our economy potentially lead to stockpiling and medicines and all kinds of things that certainly we're not on the ballot paper number 2016 it's not let me ask you one final question Frances when and it will happen believe me we do leave the European you'll have to go and get a proper job honey what are you gonna do I've not thought that far ahead I'm focused at the moment on making sure we get a people vote okay hopefully that I can't call it a people vote why's that I've told you to start the public should be allowed to say hey yeah we've already had it Frances we had it two-and-a-half years ago there was a referendum you seems you've forgotten thank you very much indeed Frances Grove white definitely directory of something called open Britain not quite sure what that means and I'm not quite sure how long opened Britain will be open for business fall because when we do leave the European open Britain will become redundant

40 thoughts on “"Don't call it a People's Vote!" | Mike Graham

  1. If we have a so called "powerful voice", who was the last UK president of the Commission or the parliament or the ECJ?

  2. The only people that don't seem to be sure on what the terms of brexit aren are the remainers who lost, funny that…

    Also, this "It was [insert ammount of time here] since the referendum" argument has zero validity for two key reasons. Firstly, who's fault is it that it has been this long? The government, not the voters, it was because they have handled and negotiated it so badly and been dragging their heels that it has taken this long.

    Secondly, the referendum was touted and promised to be a 'once in a lifetime' vote, not a 'let's see how we feel in a few years' vote, especially before we've even left and given it a try?!

  3. With all the fraud going on with false voting from imigrants there shouldn't be another referendum
    Just get on with it and get us out

  4. PEOPLE'S VOTE ORGANIZATION is bunch of criminals Remaniacs supported by money of Soros in intention to destroy Brexit and establish perverted EU globalization.

  5. 'the will of the people is not a static thing'
    thats completely correct therefore everyone that voted remain now wants to leave.
    its not my logic, its his logic just reversed

  6. It would be a 3rd referendum.when we joined we knew we could leave thats what were doing which is a democratic decision which must be enacted before its dismissed

  7. if we were thinking of joining for the first time !? Hmm , lnteresting question , huh ? what do YOU fink ? no f***ing way ! moron

  8. yeh lets have a refurendum for every major decision !? get rid of you lot and that bunch of scroungers in the house of so called lords . leave the running of the country to the professionals ! you know ! the people who know how to run businesses ? Amoral waster

  9. What it means you twat on the phone is we voted to leave we don’t want to be ruled by the e.u. We don’t have any influence at the e.u.table . We have lost most of our industries to e,u Countries. We have lost a once thriving fishing industry to the e.u. We even lost the deal to make our new passports for leaving the e.u. to the French because of e.u. Rules. The e.u.expect all sovereign states to obey their rules. We voted to rule ourselves, to police our own borders, decide our own british destiny. Not to capitulate to Brussels .

  10. This just shows what we are up against these people are totally blinkered and cannot accept the outcome of the referendum.

  11. 1:04 Says it should be called a third referendum because of the one in 1975 but the one in 1975 was about remaining in or leaving the EEC. Nothing to do with the EU because the EU didn't exist in 1975. And from 8:12 onwards he says we have been the most powerful voice since joining the EU in the 1970s but cannot even get that right because, again, the EU did not exist in the 1970s.

  12. The remainers just want to keep voting because someone has changed their mind, there's a fresh batch of 18 year olds and some people have died. They want to roll the dice until THEY get a 6, and THEN its true Democracy.

  13. Cunts like Francis Grove-White should be taken to Traitor's Gate. The 2016 Referendum was the FIRST Referendum regarding membership of the EU. 1973 Referendum was to remain in the Common Market or EC as it was known. UK voters were not consulted about joining the EU in 1992.

  14. The political/BBC Elites think you are a bunch of low IQ numbskulls who need to vote "correctly" They want to give you another chance to vote the way you were supposed to.

  15. Does this guy realise what leave means. I would not employ him, he is full of hot air. I guess when he leaves his job of work, he will negotiate his leaving…

  16. CRASH OUT ? = FEAR MONGERING.
    LEAVE = LEAVE some good bits some not so good but no EU governmental control over the UK .

  17. Francis please crawl over to France then enter your Germany where you can get your eu shoved right up your backside what a spineless git

  18. So if remain won we would have another referendum! We voted leave and that meant no deal leave! Cameron said so .

  19. It beggars belief how the political establishment try to argue for another vote. They trot out the same old rubbish. Never know what they’re talking about. It’s so boring……maybe they imagine they can remain because they bore us to death.

  20. Three years ago people said to me they expected maybe 2 years of disruption when the U.K. left the eu. Three years of disruption and the U.K. still has not left the eu. Just do it. Let the U.K. see what a disaster looks like because as far as I can tell without leaving the eu they whole process of dealing with the choice of Brexit has been a disaster. Just sign the article and let the wobblers earn their seat in Parliament. Disaster? Britain is not the Titanic but Westminster is sailing close to disaster.

  21. Who is this Francis idiot, the date is cast in stone we are out of the EU. It is written in the law, signed by the Queen, these remainers just refuse to accept a democratic result!

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